This week on the podcast we continue our Business of Outdoor Recreation series with Kile Graves, Director of Operations at beardedgoat and Walton College alum, an outdoor apparel brand that is based in Northwest Arkansas and quickly expanding nationally. They discuss the burgeoning outdoor recreation economy in Arkansas and Kile shares about his transition from the corporate world to the startup space with beardedgat. He discusses his passion for the outdoors, the challenges of establishing a brand in a growing sector, and how beardedgoat has capitalized on the growing popularity of outdoor recreation in Northwest Arkansas especially.
Podcast Episode
Episode Transcript
Kile Graves 0:01
The mountain bike scene I don't think it was as large as it is now. And just that
side of outdoor recreation is growing in popularity, we've definitely been able to
ride that wave. Because we were already leaning into that scene anyways, it just wasn't
as popular. And so as it's grown in popularity, we've been able to just tap into it
and say like, hey, we're here.
Brent Williams 0:21
Welcome to the Be Epic podcast, brought to you by the Sam M. Walton College of Business
at the University of Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll explore
the dynamic landscape of business and uncover the strategies, insights, and stories
that drive business today. Well, today I have with me Kile Graves. Kile is the Director
of Operations at Bearded Goat and alum of the Walton College. Kile, thanks for joining
me today.
Kile Graves 0:49
Yeah, thanks for having me excited to excited to be here.
Brent Williams 0:52
Well, I'm super excited that you're here. And, you know, I know you're engaged in
the outdoor recreation economy in Arkansas, which is really growing and exploding.
So I kind of want to, I really want to center us on that. But first, maybe your story
a little bit. I know you were you graduated from the Walton College, but come to tell
us all about you.
Kile Graves 1:16
Yeah. So I grew up here in Fayetteville went to Fayetteville High School before they
tore it down and built the new one. I think we were the last class in the old high
school. Yeah, came here. Went to the U of A, studied supply chain, and marketing and
economics were my minors, and then interned at Walmart, between my junior and senior
year, got a job there right after graduation. And had these like training development
programs. And I was in the one in merchandising, so I did that for about two years,
and kind of realized it wasn't my my speed, and got an opportunity to help start something,
Bearded Goat, from the ground up and so got approached by the guy that had kind of
raised some money. And his name is Terry and decided to jump ship from Walmart at
the time, had learned a lot in kind of just big, big retail space. I was in a planning
role. So it's basically intro of in control of the budget for a buyer. I was over
hangers and laundry baskets and things not so outdoorsy. But no, it was great. I learned
a lot and did that. And yeah, jumped ship. I think it was the end of 2017. Like December
of 2017. And yeah, been at Bearded Goat ever since. So it'll be six years, six years
is fall.
Brent Williams 2:44
Well, those training development programs at Walmart and specifically in merchandising
are tremendous in what you learn, right? I mean, just like the the span of what you
learn in a really short period of time, is pretty tremendous.
Kile Graves 3:00
It's crazy. It's the phrase drinking from water hose. You know, people say it's, it's
so true. I remember coming home. And I was with three roommates at the time. And I
think two of the three were working at Walmart. And we'd come home and our brains
were just like fried, and we're just like what was happening? But yeah, you you know,
I don't know if they've changed it since but you would do 10 or so weeks in like a
replenishment role. And then you do a buyer role, sourcing, product development, planning.
And then at the end, they'd spit you out into a full time position. And so yeah, it's,
it's amazing. I'm really grateful for what I learned there. And just kind of understanding
how retail works. You know, retail math works, you know, in a day to day setting,
how to analyze a business, I think I learned a lot of my analytical skills are definitely
there. I honed them in there for sure. So it was good. But I did not love the cube
farm is what we refer to it as in the startup world, but was not a fan of that so.
Brent Williams 4:00
So the transition to Bearded Goat, to work and working with Terry helping start this
company up. I guess outdoors is something personally you're passionate about.
Kile Graves 4:11
Yeah, for sure. You know, we grew up going to the Buffalo River every summer, going
to the lake every summer, running on the trails, mountain biking wasn't as big of
a thing growing up, I played basketball growing up. So I was kind of a jockey and
a sports guy. And so, but in the summer, you know, we were outside in the fall, you
know, we're outside. So that's, that's kind of how I was raised and how I spend my
time. You know, my, my dad and I would fish throughout the year every year and that
was kind of like our thing and got into fly fishing towards the end of college and
skiing every chance I could get. So any chance I could get outside we were doing it
basically. So that was always kind of a part of who I was and my interests have always
been there and so yeah, when Terry approached me and I was still Walmart with the
opportunity to come kind of like help him launch the thing and he explained, hey,
I'm gonna create a brand in the outdoor world, didn't really know anything else than
that I was kind of like, yeah, like the outdoors. And I've learned some stuff about
retail. So let's, you know, let's do it.
Brent Williams 5:13
Yeah. And the purpose of the company, I don't know if I'm going to get this exactly
right. But basically, boil it down to you guys are really trying to help more people
get outside, and I guess align the gear and apparel between technical and everyday.
Kile Graves 5:31
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, that's our website, I'm pretty sure at this point,
and we've, you know, a brand is a brand identities for us has kind of changed a little
bit as we've, we've grown and, you know, certain things will take grip in the market,
and other things won't. And so you kind of have to adapt a little bit, but yeah our
identity from the start was, hey, if we can, it was me and I Owen Bell was my counterpart
of the company. He's our Creative Director, and then McCain Martin, is in charge of
our product development. He's also a UARK alum at the Walton College, so yeah us three,
we're all from, and we kind of run the we run the company day to day. And so us three
all grew up in Northwest Arkansas, we all have a little bit different interests. You
know, McCain has family in the west coast. So surfing was big in his upbringing and
interest. And I spent time on the river and camping and Owen was also in Rogers growing
up outdoors. And so us three, kind of blended our interests in the outdoors and how
it's authentic to this area, which, for us, shows up either on a trail of some sort
or on the water of some sort. And that's kind of where we've boiled it down to those
two environments. And then we said, hey, let's, let's just make an outdoor lifestyle
brand, clothing brand that we make stuff we can wear doing any of that. That's kind
of the idea. And so it's, it's loose enough, where we can create products that don't
necessarily fit into a specific water category. It's it's more than just lifestyle,
but our inspiration and the soul of our brand lives, lives there so.
Brent Williams 7:05
If if you're asking you maybe to reflect on the last, what, five, six years that you've
been there, you know, today, where the company and the brand is at, and maybe the
products versus when you started five or six years ago, what, what is still the case?
Or what's still true, and maybe what's different?
Kile Graves 7:26
Yeah, that's a good question. What's different, you know, I think we started probably
trying to make products that were way more technical than we do now. And making clothes
is really hard. Like, it's, it's us three, we have an idea for a piece, and then we
turn it into reality. And so it's, it's a long process. It's an expensive process.
But I think originally, we were trying to make, you know, pretty intense, outdoor,
you know, stuff, you could ski in really technical pieces, water resistant clothing
and rain jackets, and more high end on the technical side. And I think we've shifted
over the years into more of a lifestyle brand, we still have hits of technical pieces,
and our our products are really, really high quality. And they're designed with a
lot of intentionality. But the technical aspects aren't as important to the product,
I would say now. And that's allowed us to reach just kind of a broader market, you
know, and guys that are like, hey, I'm not in the rain every day hiking, but the one
time I am a year, I'm gonna grab this jacket, you know, and all the other weekends,
I'm not hiking in the rain, I can wear this jacket. So we've kind of shifted our focus
there. But the focus on being outside and spending time outside has remained constant
for sure.
Brent Williams 8:44
The purpose clearly is the same. Just the business pivoted just a little bit.
Kile Graves 8:49
Yeah, the assortment, the offering has kind of changed a little bit.
Brent Williams 8:52
For someone that's not been engaged in apparel, you know, you mentioned apparel is
hard, and it's very hard, right? You know, you've got short selling seasons often.
And then for one given product, you've got multiple sizes and colors. And it's a it's
a big challenge to go from an idea to execution and execution well. Talk us through
a little bit of that process.
Kile Graves 9:19
Ah man, yeah, it's, you know, so you, you'll come up with an idea for for the silhouette.
You know, like the pants I'm wearing or are launching this fall, they're heavyweight
cotton canvas, kind of like a work wear type of pant. So we'll have an idea in our
head of like, hey, we want to pant that's a little bit baggier fit, heavy duty cotton.
You know, in the beginning, you don't know what different types of fabrics they are,
at least I didn't. So I was like, alright, we also have to durable what does that
mean? Well, it probably means it's cotton and it probably has a little bit of like
a canvas aspect to it. So you start sourcing fabrics until you feel the one you like
and you think is the right style and then you get a prototype made which is always
way off, you know in fit and how it looks and colors are always random, you'll have
like a bright orange work pant, that we would never make that color. But that's what
you have until you're closer to placing your orders. So you refine the fit over a
couple of months and you get the fit, right. And then you choose your colors. And
you know, you're selecting Pantones and then you're dyeing fabric, and you have to
wait for that sample to come in. And then you're approving a color decision, you know,
months in advance, before you get to see the, the finished garment. And so it's a
lot of kind of deciding on the fly. You know, we're we're making really calculated
decisions, but we have to make them quick. Because you're, you're making the decisions,
basically a year out for when the product gets here so.
Yeah, and lots can change in a year.
For sure.
Brent Williams 10:43
So big, big challenge managing an apparel supply chain.
Kile Graves 10:47
Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's, you know, we have, we have some really good partners
that help us make this stuff. And they're really flexible. And I think because our
team is so small, we're able to make decisions quickly. And if us three can kind of
get aligned on an idea whether it's a color, or a fit or style of a piece. We know
it's pretty much a home run hitter. So yeah, that's kind of the grid we we push it
through.
Brent Williams 11:11
Well, you know, as we, as we mentioned at the outset, you know, the outdoor economy,
outdoor recreation economy in Arkansas, has, you know, what, one I guess we've had
the natural assets for forever. But it seems like we're really getting aligned as
a state and as a region on I would say leveraging those assets. You know from, from
a quality of life and from an economic development standpoint, just you know, you're
a native here, what do you see? How are you guys participating in all that?
Kile Graves 11:45
Yeah, no doubt. Like, I think the the Greenway was the first, Razorback Greenway,
it was kind of the first piece that I recognized, I was like, Whoa, this is, this
was legit. You know, it runs all the way from downtown Fayetteville to Bentonville,
and it's continuous and you can ride your bike. I can't remember when they when they
completed that. But that was the first piece to me that I recognized the growth and
then obviously, the mountain biking, that's the biggest piece for our brand. And me
personally, you know, it has been a couple times a week, I'll go in the mornings and
ride on the trails. But that's, that's been the most obvious is just the the growth
and the development around the mountain bike scene. Specifically in Bentonville and
Fayetteville and Northwest Arkansas, and then even across the state now it's, you
know, there's a lot of trails being developed, and people look for ways to get on
them. Whether it's first time on a bike, or people are traveling here from all over
the world now. We'll run into people in Bentonville, you know, in their vans, and
they drove from Maine to Bentonville, Arkansas, and they're parked outside camping.
And, man, we heard about Bentonville we got to get down there. And I was like, Bentonville,
do you? How, why are you coming to Arkansas, you know, because we've known is great.
But the the development and the building of the trail system and how it connects to
the culture of the cities I think is really cool. And then the the lake is another
big piece of our brand, which, you know, we've we've grown up on and because it's
controlled by the Corps of Engineers, it's not as commercialized, which is a good
thing. It keeps its natural beauty there. So yeah, that's and that's even grown though
to you know, wake, wake surf boats. That's kind of where our brand lives and we were
surfing behind the boat. If you've ever done it,
Brent Williams 13:27
I have
Kile Graves 13:28
We need to take you out sometime.
Brent Williams 13:29
Yeah, I'll go again though.
Kile Graves 13:30
Yeah, let's go. It's a it's a blast. But you know, those, they're way more popular
than when I was a kid. You know, it was like, you go on the lake, and it'd be pontoons,
and maybe one cobalt, you know, or something. And now it's these super nice wakesurf
boats everywhere. So, you know, and I think that's, you know, probably credit to a
lot of the big corporations and up north that are cultivating the region. And you
know, the involvement of the Walton College here and how it's connecting students
to those job opportunities and making this area just more of a desirable place to
live. I think it's like you said, it's always been desirable, but they're starting
to tell people about it, which has its pros and cons.
Brent Williams 14:12
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and building a brand like yours and a company like yours.
I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure there's a benefit of just being here around all in in that
ecosystem.
Kile Graves 14:24
For sure.
Brent Williams 14:25
The relationships with other entrepreneurs and companies, there's a lot of support
for entrepreneurs building companies here as well.
Kile Graves 14:33
Yes, yeah, there is, you know, we, when we started, you know, five years ago, the
mountain bike scene I don't think it was as large as it is now. And so from just what
we were talking about earlier, just that side of outdoor recreation is growing in
popularity. We've definitely been able to ride that wave. Because we were already
leaning into that scene anyways, it just wasn't as popular and so as it's grown in
popularity, we've been able to just again, tap into it and say like, Hey, we're here.
This is what we're about anyways, we've been able to ride that wave. But yeah, the
startup scene is way more connected than I thought it was, you know, going here, I
studied supply chain and interned at Walmart, like I said, and so my exposure to the
business world was always in the biggest of settings in Walmart. And so I didn't,
I didn't have a lot of exposure to the startup world, until I left to help start Bearded
Goat, but since then, you know, it's amazing the connections across small businesses
and founders that are trying to figure out ways to help each other and come up with
ideas and just kind of cross pollinate almost.
Brent Williams 15:43
Yeah. As, as you sort of look for look forward for the company. You know, what's kind
of the hopes and dreams? And then, you know, maybe even, you know, your your hopes
for our region and our state as it relates to outdoor recreation?
Kile Graves 16:00
Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I think dreams, hopes and dreams for Bearded Goat
would be, you know, we kind of have this, this internal argument with us three, where
we're kind of like, we want to brag and make it known where we're from. And we're
from Northwest Arkansas. And that's where our inspiration and our identity for the
brand comes from. But you also don't want to be too specific to a region because you
can limit the size of your potential market. And so we kind of have this debate of
back and forth, like, how do we wave our flag where we're from, but not put us in
a small box of, you know, a specific demographic. And so I think continuing to find
that balance as we grow and find more people that just enjoy spending time outside,
and they like, spending time on the lake, and they like spending time on trails, and
they like the clothes that we make because it supports this lifestyle of adventure
and creativity, and just getting outside in creative ways. So I think if we can continue
to grow and find more and more people that like this lifestyle that we're promoting.
That's the vision, it's not very specific. But yeah, just growth man, just seeing
people. Like I saw someone this weekend wearing a pair of our swim trunks at the farmers
market. And every time I see someone wearing a piece, like we always take a picture
and send it to each other. And that never gets old. It's really fun. Because you spend
so much time and thought creating like a pair of swim trunks. And then you see someone
wearing it, you're like, man, you chose to buy that, you know, and wear that today.
And so it's just cool. But yeah, for the region. You know, you hear the sayings of
like, this is the next Austin all the time, at least we know we hear those. And I
think it's real. And I think we have a unique setup here. I guess it is similar to
Austin with, you know, biggest corporation in the world. And then you have Tyson and
JB Hunt, and all the resources and energy that they're pouring into the economy here.
But then you also have a SEC school that's in the same area. And so you get the energy
and the youthfulness of the college world. And you blend those together with a unique
outdoor market that's growing in popularity. It just has this really cool, unique
hub that isn't like and we're in the south. So you know, it's not a coastal city,
which is also unique. But I think people are desiring that, you know, it's cheaper
to live. I don't know the stats on like, how many people move here a day, but I know
they're keeping track. But I think if we can continue to grow and figure out a way
to accommodate for all the people that are moving here but not lose sight of what
made Northwest Arkansas unique in the first place. That'd be cool.
Brent Williams 18:43
I agree. I agree. Well, we were reminiscing, before this, I think I met you when you
were a freshman in 2012. And maybe kind of shifting gears just a little bit as you
think back to your time in the Walton College and at the University of Arkansas. You
know, and now you're six, seven years post that, you know, helping run and build a
company, what are some of the things or experiences that really stand out to you that
you think gave you an advantage in that?
Kile Graves 19:17
That's a good question. Yeah, I think you know, taking your taking your classes seriously
is a really important thing. I think trying to maximize what you're getting out of
class is important, which is hard to do when you're 18 you know, like, hey, what you're
learning is really important and will apply to you and six years from now, but telling
that to six years ago me it's hard to like hammer home. I think that and networking
and making relationships is really important. I feel like everyone says that looking
back but it really is you know, the people you meet you know if you can build a relationship
and build a little bit of trust and network as you continue your career and get into
your career. The people, you know, is so important, you know, being able to ask questions
and bounce things off of them, especially in the startup world, like so much is, is
leveraging your network for everything, from fundraising, to marketing, to product
testing, to feedback, it's, you know, it's everything. So if you have a large network
of authentic relationships, and you can really leverage them, and it gives you a gives
you a leg up, I think.
Brent Williams 20:33
I couldn't agree more, you know, when when you think about when I think about our
students, you know, I want them leaving the Walton College with, you know, with knowledge
and skills. I mean, of course, it's maybe one of the first things you think about
when you think about going to college. But then layering experiences of any kind,
you know, you mentioned an internship at at Walmart or an internship in any size company,
can be super beneficial. And, and then you cannot understate this the power of the
relationships that you form, you know, and and that network that you really start
to build, and then that network starts to expand over time. Like those are real real
value.
Kile Graves 21:18
Yes, yeah, they're invaluable. We, I studied abroad, in between my sophomore and junior
year with Molly Rapert. And Sam Porkstad who we mentioned earlier in the podcast,
and I had so much fun, like, just from an experience standpoint, you know, if you're
listening to this, and your student, go study abroad, it's awesome. Like, it's the
most fun, free will you get to learn and experience things and be in a different culture.
And I think that experience of getting outside my comfort zone was really important.
Because I'm from Fayetteville, and you know, go here, and I see people I've known
forever at the coffee shop. But going and living in a different country for six weeks
really did push me out of my comfort zone, which I think helped transition into bearded
goat where it's like, hey, there's no rules here, sink or swim. If you're trying to
make this thing work, you got to, you got to grind. And so I think that was an important
piece that I didn't realize, probably until the past two or three years where I was
like, man that that experience in college definitely helped me now. And even some
relationships, you know, Anne Velliquette, I think our first or second year at Bearded
Goat. I don't know if Molly connected us or what. But we, me and Owen somehow ended
up coming and doing like a presentation for one of their classes. And we were, Owen
was redesigning our logo, and we're getting feedback on that. And then also some like
guerilla marketing efforts, and we actually got an idea from one of their classes
for like a college rep program. And we ran it for a couple months to kind of get some
boots on the ground in the early days. And, you know, we implemented that idea, from
a class from a student and it helped us kind of get over the first hump of the first
couple of months of business. And since then we repositioned it and pivoted a couple
times. But yeah, if I wouldn't have had connections still at the Walton College probably
wouldn't have happened.
Brent Williams 23:06
Well, I love that story, your story of in some ways, the University of Arkansas and
Walton College kept you here. Right, you know, you worked for a really, really large
company and got some tremendous experience there. Now, you've been in a startup for
five or six years, and you've still kept yourself engaged. And you know, the two faculty
members in marketing in our Department of Marketing, Molly Rapert and Anne Velliquette,
that you just mentioned, are they do a great job of engaging business of, of all size
in with our students.
Kile Graves 23:41
Yeah. And I think it really helps the students, you know, when you have someone from
the real world business setting come in, and they're not that much older than you.
And they're talking to you about their experiences, and they're asking you for your
advice. I think that's when the, the brain has like a different chamber, you know,
and when you can activate that chamber of thinking in a business, real world business
setting, that's where the learning takes place, you know, and they do a great job
of, of doing that. For sure.
Brent Williams 24:08
They sure do. Well, you've hit on this a little bit. You mentioned, study abroad,
is something you advise students, but just as you think about our students today,
all right. What are some of the pieces of advice that you know from where you sit
today that you would give to our students?
Kile Graves 24:29
Yeah, I would say, this might be kind of lame, but I would say just go get a job.
Like if you're working, if you're in the business college, and you don't know what you want to do, which I didn't when I was, you know, and I knew I liked business and supply chain was interesting. So I was like, hey, I'll major in that. Go get a job where you can work in addition to your studies, and you can learn what you like and don't like and you can figure out what you're passionate about and what you're interested in. Not everyone, you know, is fortunate enough to do something that they love. But if you can, then you should pursue it. So yeah, I would say, just get a job, just work, figure out what you like, figure out what you don't like, check things off the list, compare that to what you're studying, and try and connect the dots as much as you can between the classroom and then your real world job, you know, as much as you can. And the more you can do that, the four years, you're here, I think the transition to working full time will get easier, and you might be able to pick up speed quicker, so.
Brent Williams 25:33
Kile, I couldn't agree with you more, actually, I really couldn't. You know, I think
about I think about education. You know, a business school education is so enhanced
when you're learning and applying. And, and, and it doesn't matter, I agree with you
doesn't matter what job you're doing, what company you're with, as long as you're
learning and applying and back and forth. That's how you get the most out of out of
education. But then, you know, it does teach you what, you know, what you're interested
in what you're not interested in. And, you know, a typical student, not every student,
but you know, a typical student, you mentioned an 18 year old coming in as a freshman
and leaving as a 22 year old. There's a lot of change and transition in your life
during that period of time. So you want as much experience as you can.
Kile Graves 26:29
Yeah, I mean, I remember I worked at Walker Brothers through college and other
Yeah, John Cole.
John Cole, another professor. Is he still teaching?
Brent Williams 26:38
He's not teaching, but he's still involved.
Kile Graves 26:40
Okay, nice. Yeah, I worked there, freshman year, all the way through school. And I
was in a fraternity too, and so we'd go and I worked on commission. So I was like,
hey, the more of my buddies, I can get here to come by jackets and stuff, the more
my paychecks gonna be. So, you know, inadvertently, I learned how to leverage my connections
in my job. And, you know, I was I was interested in clothing, and I had a good outdoor
clothing section in the store that was kind of in its early stages. And so, you know,
I was able to go do that from noon to five every day after class, and then come back
and learn about supply chain. And after I did that, I went to Walmart. And I was like,
man, I really, I really enjoy the sales and networking and marketing parts of Walker
Brothers in clothing. And then I really did enjoy the analytical, big data, Walmart,
in a retail setting type of stuff, but feel like I wasn't able to make the impact
in such a big company. So when I came to Bearded Goat, those two things kind of clicked
or I was like, man, I like sales and guerrilla marketing, small business. But, you
know, I also like data and making projections and analyzing stuff. And so I was able
to marry those two things up. But I didn't realize the value of a part time job. I
don't think until now, where I'm like, man, I enjoyed that. I just didn't really know.
That's what I was enjoying until I got into Bearded Goat probably.
Brent Williams 28:06
Well, it seems like you've taken advantage of all of those experiences and combine
them in a way now in a role at Bearded Goat that seems to be just a great fit for
you.
Kile Graves 28:18
Yeah, it's been really fun. It's it definitely is a good fit. You know, I wouldn't,
I wouldn't change it for anything. It's, you know, I think it's the best job in the
world because it's us three and we're, we're creating and it's hard and the markets
hard and starting starting an outdoor apparel brand that's nationwide out of Arkansas
is pretty hard. But it's really fun so.
Brent Williams 28:42
Well, we're glad you're here in Northwest Arkansas. The Walton College is super proud
that you're one of our alums.
Kile Graves 28:48
Thank you.
Brent Williams 28:49
And so we wish you the best and wish Bearded Goat the best and thanks for joining
us on the podcast.
Kile Graves 28:56
Yeah, of course. Of course. It's awesome.
Brent Williams 28:58
On behalf of the Walton College thank you for joining us for this captivating conversation.
To stay connected and never miss an episode, simply search for be epic on your preferred
podcast service.
Brent D. Williams is the Dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas.
With a deep commitment to fostering excellence in business education and thought leadership,
Dr. Williams brings a wealth of experience to his role, shaping the future of the
college and its impact on students and the business community.
