Episode 255: Building Business Relationships with Mario Ramirez

December 6 , 2023  |  By Brent Williams

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This week on the Be Epic podcast, host Brent Williams welcomes guest Mario Ramirez, President of M Ramirez Group and Chief Client Officer for Golden Rod Companies. They delve into the importance of relationships in business, with Mario emphasizing the value of conveying your principles and work ethic in every interaction. Mario shares his career journey, starting with architecture and moving into finance, which included a stint at Merrill Lynch and a 21-year tenure at TIAA. He discusses his diverse roles, from starting a Trust Company to leading the executive relations forum and the Hispanic market nationally. Furthermore, he shares his experience of shifting to entrepreneurship and the formation of his own consulting firm, M Ramirez Group. This episode offers invaluable insights into career transitions, the power of relationships, and the importance of adaptability in business.

Podcast Episode

Episode Transcript

Mario Ramirez  0:00  
When you meet somebody, try to convey your, some of your values and principles of who you are. You know, you're, you're, you're reliable, you're loyal. You're your work ethic, and they get to know you. And all of a sudden that becomes valuable at some point. But until that point occurs, just keep the relationship going. And there's value in every relationship.

Brent Williams  0:25  
Welcome to the Be Epic podcast, brought to you by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll explore the dynamic landscape of business, and uncover the strategies, insights, and stories that drive business today. Well, today I have with me Mario Ramirez. Mario is President of the M Ramirez group, his own consulting firm, and he's also the Chief Client Officer for Golden Rod Companies. Mario, thanks for joining me today.

Mario Ramirez  0:59  
You're welcome, Brent, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Brent Williams  1:03  
Well, Mario, you're a great supporter of the University of Arkansas Walton College and an alum of the Walton College and your your relationships here, across campus go pretty deep, don't they?

Mario Ramirez  1:18  
They really do. They do. And I'm, I'm a proud alum, also proud dad of, of one alum, and two current students one law student and in one, undergrad. So a lot of relationships across the campus, for sure.

Brent Williams  1:36  
Well, where I want us to focus on today will be sort of the power of relationships in business. But but before that, maybe a little bit about your journey, your career journey thus far. And then a little bit of, I think, you know, mentioned, you have your own consulting firm, you're also working in real estate with golden rod, and a few other things. So I'd love to hear kind of your journey and what you're up to now.

Mario Ramirez  2:03  
Sure. Thanks, Brent, you know, I told somebody the other day that I that I studied architecture, in college, and I did for a year, then I then I moved to finance. And that's what I got my degree in. I had cold called with a good friend and fraternity brother, Kenny Gibbs at Merrill Lynch and had when I interviewed at Merrill Lynch, for my first job, they hired me, I said, why'd you hire me? And they said, well, Kenny Gibbs put a good word in for you. And when I thanked Kenny, he said, no, just just pay it forward. Next time, you will have an opportunity to do the same thing. And I've never forgotten about that. My entire career. In my I think my involvement in nonprofits or in helping students in in board work kind of stems from that premise. But that said, I started with Merrill Lynch, was there five years I left there, I felt a little bit ethically challenged with one particular main manager. So I left and I had, I wanted to leave brokerage, I wanted to get more into other financial services more broadly. And start to run out of money. And so I ended up my dad was saying, Can I can I give you some money, some money and I said no. I don't need any money, but I needed money. And so we were married, and I asked my next door neighbor who ran and ran a lawn service. I said, can I he put me on the crew. And he said, okay, we'll put you on the crew. And so I'd go mow 20-25 lawns a day, come home, take a shower, put a suit on, go to an interview. And so I found TIAA, transitioned over to TI. It's now called TIAA at the time, it was TI Cref. I spent 21 years there. And starting from an advisory role. Working with the University of Arkansas actually actually played a big part in this. They I was the the president of the local alumni chapter in Dallas. And they needed somebody to come in and work with the institutions across the state of Ark, of Arkansas. And so they said, you're a perfect fit. So I did that. That's where I started my career with TI CREF. And then, you know, they wanted me to help them create a Trust Company, which I did, I worked with, you know, beginning the Trust Company. Then we started wealth management, started working with our highest our wealthiest clients. And so I became one of the first directors in wealth management than they asked me to create something specifically for because the company focuses on cost large universities, nonprofits around the country it's a trillion dollar pension fund. They said we need, we need you to create something for the very the decision makers, the most influential leaders across the organizations that we serve. So I stepped into that role created that and helped help form, you know, Private Client Services. Then I eventually worked with with our CEO Roger Ferguson, in leading the executive relations forum, and also the Hispanic market nationally. I left there, and I started my own consulting firm. I remember, I wasn't sure what I was going to do, I knew that we were having a downsizing in the company. And in a couple of months, my position was going to be eliminated. I remember asking a good friend of mine, a former governor, you know, what do you think I should do? And he said, well, you have a pretty incredible network. Why don't you? Why don't you use that network and establish a consulting firm, opened doors for families like ours, and others, and help help us build our businesses. And so they and he said, I will be your first client. And so that's how I started M Ramirez Group. And then I put different components together around it, for example, tax expertise, and also insurance. And basically different parts of my group came together to serve the clients. And since I was licensed leaving TIAA licensed, securities license, I was able to represent companies that are raising capital, for example, projects that are raising capital. And so it was a it was a good fit all around in ways to, you know, create in a way to serve the needs of ultra high net worth families, influential families. Along the course of this development of this business, I met Zach Wiegert. And Zach is a former NFL player and started investing in real estate. And he eventually created Golden Rod Companies, Golden Rod Funds, about four and a half billion in assets, and properties. And he asked me to be his Chief Client Officer, and working with some of the same families that I've been working with and other wealthy individuals, and we invest in large projects around the center, central part of the country.

Brent Williams  7:29  
Well, I can tell that it's been a lot of fun in the journey, not not, including TIA, probably Merrill to some degree, but certainly, since then, I can tell you, I've had a lot of fun putting these things together. 

Mario Ramirez  7:44  
Definitely. 

Brent Williams  7:46  
You know, one part of your story I didn't quite remember until just then, was that the, the opportunity at TIAA came ultimately, because of your service on leading the alumni group in Dallas.

Mario Ramirez  8:00  
It really did. Yeah. 

Brent Williams  8:02  
So you know, talk a little bit about that, because that's clearly an investment of time you made that you didn't necessarily have an expectation of it paying off that way.

Mario Ramirez  8:13  
It's interesting, you put it that way, because I've had people ask me, why do you volunteer? Why do you get involved, you know, on a, on a board? You know, I serve on your board, and it's an honor to do so. And, and they say, you don't, you don't get paid with that. And I said, you really do that, because the relationships that you make, there and really the the work that you're doing to help, you know, students in the university that you love. So it was it was a natural fit for TIAA to say, hey, why don't you come help us in the state of Arkansas? It was it was a perfect fit. And, and it was, it was interesting, going back to former professors, and working with them, you know, on their, on their retirement planning on their financial planning, and eventually working with, you know, the leadership here, the university and the coaches and, and eventually doing that nationally. But it did all start with really the relationship with the University of Arkansas and relationships that I have within that, within our school, our university.

Brent Williams  9:24  
Yeah. What do you think it is? I mean, clearly, you have a propensity to really invest in relationships, not necessarily with an expectation of return. But, but knowing more broadly, they will return. How do you think maybe even going back to the to the way you grew up, how did you learn that?

Mario Ramirez  9:44  
That's a good that's a good question. How I learned that I'm not honestly, I'm not really sure how I learned it. I I want to be able to I want to be care about the relationship that I'm, that I'm involved with or that I, you know, I guess, if I listen to my own advice, when I'm when I meet with students, for example, you know, I'll tell them, I'll tell them, hey, it's, has anybody heard, the idea of, it's who you know, and you'll get a lot of hands raised. And I'll say, okay, write that down. And, and then I'll say, okay, now rip that sheet of paper out of your, out of your notebook and throw it away. Because it's not who you know, because we all know a lot of people, I tell them, it's kind of cheesy, but it's who knows you. And what I tell students, and I guess I've follow my own advice when you meet somebody. And it doesn't have to be anyone note worthy, so to speak. When you meet somebody, try to convey your, some of your values and principles of who you are, you know, your, your you're reliable, you're loyal, your, your work ethic, your you know, what, what value you can bring to the relationship or what in the work that you do. And they get to know you, somewhat. And all of a sudden, that becomes valuable at some point. But until that point occurs, just keep the relationship going. And there's value in every relationship. And I don't know, we don't know what it is sometimes upfront, it may be a few years down the road, before you understand what that value is, and how it fits into your overall kind of walk in life. 

Brent Williams  11:32  
Yeah

Mario Ramirez  11:33  
You know, or in your career. And I guess I'm just kind of thought about it that way.

Brent Williams  11:37  
Largely worked in financial services. And that's started to broaden for you. But, you know, as you as you work across industries now, and you know, interact across those throughout your career, it seems to me that the power of relationships, matters, no matter what area of business that you're working in.

Mario Ramirez  11:59  
Yeah, no question, no question and finances, it really matters because you're dealing with with something very personal to these individuals, and they need to know that, that they can trust you, that you're looking out for their best interest. So you need to establish that trust. And that's really the case in any business that you're working in. And so I think that's maybe what I strive to do establish the trust, and so that you can have honest conversations about how we can collaborate, we can work together, you hear this statement all the time. You know it's great to work with, you know, with good people, great to put good people together. You know, part of that is, is is knowing who those good people know, knowing the good people that at, at a relationship level, excuse me, the, building the relationship first. That's what I'm trying to say, and then understanding where you can insert yourself to help them.

Brent Williams  13:04  
Yep, you know, almost, I've got our students in mind, and this doesn't, what we're going to talk about does not just apply to students, it applies to me. But it applies to probably just anybody out there building any kind of career. You said something a moment ago, like when you when you meet someone and you start building a relationship, you want to convey your values in some way really early on. And and that is not something you know, you don't I don't think you've ever walked up to me and said, hey, Brent, here's my values, right? So you, you demonstrate that through action, what are just some any just like simple, like practical ways that you do that?

Mario Ramirez  13:47  
I know that families or individuals that I work with, that are high net worth, ultra high net worth a lot, they they're they're in demand. And so they get asked a lot of them. So if you sit down with someone like this, to not ask for something, except to understand who they are, and for him for them to understand who you are, kind of where you're from, what you're, what you're about, and what they're about, listen to them. And not ask not ask anything of them at all, is is one way. And that's that's usually pretty evident. It's in the sense that they're so used to getting asked, you know, so that's one way to do it, I think following up with whatever was discussed, you know, and promised in a timely manner, in the appropriate way, you know, is is another way to demonstrate that and just just showing them that you're actually listening to them as they're talking.

Brent Williams  14:58  
You know what I went out talk to our students, when I get to give, you know, advice in this area, there's two things you just said that I think are really key. One is the ability to listen. Underrated skill, the the ability to listen. But the other is follow up, that is very, very important, right in terms of the, the relationship building process.

Mario Ramirez  15:22  
It is, it really is and, and follow up not only on specific items that were requested, or that were, that were discussed, let's say, but also just follow up, you know, if you're, you know, we all do, we all travel in our careers, and even personally, and you know, who's in that city that you're going where you're going to, you know, you have your agenda, your schedule, your itinerary for that time that you're there, but, you know, is there anybody you need to follow up with, you know, and just catch up with, and, and staying relevant with people, and, you know, business aside, just kind of caring about those, those people as as how they, how they do in life, you know, and just staying in touch is, is a good thing, you know, relationships and friendships there, they, they become more and more valuable, I think the older you become just, you know, you start really emphasizing that.

Brent Williams  16:21  
Yeah and the value you get out of those relationships often sort of evolves over time, I would say, you know, and but you said something that made me think about, you know, say, truly caring, right, and I think that's really where where it starts with relationships is truly just caring about the well being of the people around you.

Mario Ramirez  16:43  
Regardless of the position of somebody, you know, an executive or it doesn't, doesn't matter, any, any level, you know, professionally, caring about that individual, you know, who they are, where they are in life and is there anything you can do to to help, you know, sincerely, is, I think, I think, I think people will understand and feel the sincerity in your, in your discussion in your voice, and, but it's really identifying in a business setting and identifying what the needs are, and approaching it in a very consultative way, you know, here's how, a couple of different ways that we could, we could help and, and then get the best resources possible to address those particular, you know, pain points or challenges.

Brent Williams  17:34  
You know, one thing that, that I wanted to bring up that I observed in, in getting to be around you, you and I are around each other quite a bit. Even though we live in, in different places, you know, innovation is often putting, not always just creation, right? It's often about putting unique things together. Sometimes that's relationships. You know, and, and I see, I see you do that a lot like you think about like, oh, how does this relationship fit with this? And how do I bring those people together? And it's kind of allowed you to get into lots of really fun and unique projects.

Mario Ramirez  18:16  
Yeah, you know, the going back to caring about people understanding where they are in life. Part of that is understanding what they're doing, what their priorities are, I used to walk into, into when I was at TI Cref, I'd walk into the president's office and, and one of the questions I would always ask is, what do you think about first thing, you walk in the door here in the morning? And what's the last thing on your mind when you leave? When you close that door? What's on your mind on the way out the door? And those are the things I want to try to help you with. And it could be any number of things. I remember one president said, well, okay, we need to build a pedestrian bridge on the south end of campus, and I need to get it done. But I need some political help to navigate that and, and get the funding for it. And this, you know, and we were able to put together the right individuals to help in that situation. But opportunities, I see a lot of opportunities, I see a lot of deals, I see a lot of projects, and in companies that are raising capital or growing. You know, I had one the other day. And they they they're building a factory in one part of the country. And I said, well, what if you put the factory in a different part of the country, we could get the right investors involved here. We could get the right political capital involved. We could get the university involved. We could we could allow the university to provide jobs into this and it itself this project is going to create 1,000 new jobs so but coordinating all the different pieces meant that I needed to know what each component who the the point person would be on each component part of that. And I think just getting to know, people developing relationships gives me the kind of the bank of, of priorities for each individual and how to match that up. Does that make sense?

Brent Williams  20:21  
That totally make sense. That's, that's exactly right. I don't think I've ever until I'm sitting here, I don't know that I've ever thought about innovation in that way. I've always thought about innovation as putting unique things together that may not have ever been put together, that's innovation. But it also works with relationships, too. And I guess that's often key to getting something new and unique and different done.

Mario Ramirez  20:46  
Yeah. Yeah, it really is, you know and when you have those relationships you know, I think it's, yeah, I think it's important when you have a board, for example, to understand, to get to know, each board member, each board member is then re giving their time, there are some very important business things that are usually going on that day, but they're here, you know, and each one has something to give. So developing the relationship and understanding where their heart is, what, what they what they can provide, what kind of, you know, intelligent, or business intuition or business insight they might have, that they could help, in this case, the Walton College, you know, with what, and then and then kind of storing that away and knowing, well, I really like this person and gotten to know them over the past couple of years. And I know that they have a company that that specializes in this, and maybe in a couple of years, we'll develop something in that space. You know, so you understand how to match that up at the right moment.

Brent Williams  21:25  
Agreed. Well, you know, Mario, you've after, I know, you're still involved in the finance industry in some way. But but your career has evolved into you're more and more involved in real estate, with Golden Rod as an example, you've also been involved in with large construction companies. So how's that transition been? And, you know, into into that realm?

Mario Ramirez  22:26  
Yeah, it's funny, it's all very symbiotic let me say it that way. Everything's related to to the other. You know, as I look at my role with Golden Rod, it's, it's as Chief Client Officer, we're doing some really cool projects, we're building, you know, a $500 million hotel and condo, you know, what, together with the Atlanta Braves at the, at the Battery, in Atlanta overlooking the stadium, that's a neat project, you know, but if you look at the fund, itself, that this project is coming out of, it's very investor friendly. So I work with a lot of investors I work with, you know, high net worth families that are that are looking to, for for investments that have value to them, that are set up the right way. And, for instance, in that particular case, the fund is very investor friendly. So it's easy to to, to discuss and bring up and it can be, you know, I, I wouldn't be involved with it if I didn't think it was a good match for some of the individuals that I work with. So the work that we're doing there is meaningful and really designed for the clientele that I've been working with. One of the families that I've been working with over the past several years, they do have a very large infrastructure company, Southland Holdings. And they decided to go public in the past year, and they invited me to join the board, which has been really exciting. You know, we went up to New York to ring the bell, and to see this company that that started, you know, in the last generation, and to see it start from from, you know, immigrants from Italy, starting the construction company that has acquired, you know, has grown on their own grown through acquisition now owns American Bridge, for example, the company that built the Empire State Building, 

Brent Williams  24:27  
Yeah, 

Mario Ramirez  24:27  
It's just really, really a neat American story.

Brent Williams  24:31  
Absolutely. Some iconic projects I've gotten to visit Southland with you. 

Mario Ramirez  24:36  
Yeah

Brent Williams  24:36  
The headquarters. And to walk along and see the iconic projects throughout this country's history that they've been involved in is actually truly tremendous.

Mario Ramirez  24:46  
It really is. It really is seeing, seeing the Astrodome and the Oakland Bay Bridge and the Tappan Zee Bridge up in New York. And of course, you know, even aircraft carriers and battleships during World War II. Seeing the things that that we've built as a company over the, over the decades. And they're really part of American history.

Brent Williams  25:11  
Yeah.

Mario Ramirez  25:11  
It's neat.

Brent Williams  25:12  
You know, Mario, you've heard me say this many times, I think I think one of the Walton College's most important competitive advantages, you will, if you will, is our connectivity, connectivity to companies and our alumni. It seems to me that, you know, the U of A and the Walton College has really been a big part of your story. I mean, going back, I guess, to, you know, getting you in the door in some way in TIAA, but it's really continue, you've really, you've really continued to invest in this set of relationships. And it's, it's, I don't know that I would say it's the absolute core, but it certainly has been important throughout that journey.

Mario Ramirez  25:54  
Well it's been important to me, you know, that Walton College and the University. You know, I've gotten so much out of it, relationships, you know, from my family, my wife, you know, we met here, we met in front of the Walton College, actually, right in front of it. And, you know, now having my kids go to school here, having lifelong friendships here, so it means a lot to me. And so to be able to serve on the board, and give back in a variety of ways, is something as it's a priority, you know, frankly, but, you know, the Walton College makes it in the connectivity that you're referred to, I think that what makes it easy, what makes that flourish, and you're right, it does here, it really does, among our students, our alumni, our board, the leadership of the college, I think it's, it's the same quality that I see that I was place as my number one quality for leaders, for good leaders, if somebody were to ask me, what's the number one quality in a good leader? I'd say humility. And I see that here. And humility in the sense that regardless of position, CEO of any company, you know, that we all know of any any company or, you know, a wealthy family or individual doesn't matter. They're open to hearing what the students have to say, 

Brent Williams  27:25  
Yeah,

Mario Ramirez  27:25  
They're open to hearing what the leadership has to say about the college.

Brent Williams  27:29  
Yeah. 

Mario Ramirez  27:29  
And where it's going, 

Brent Williams  27:30  
You you hit on something there, that's really important. It is kind of who we are. Right, you know. And you and I were just a, you know, at a luncheon, where I observed, you know, one of our students get a chance to tell these really successful people, they were asked they, they wanted to know what she thought, right? They wanted to learn from her. And, you know, and she was able to voice, you know, that actually, what was really important to her was being able to make an impact through her internships and her career. And I was walking, I was looking around that room and watching people glued to her. And these are very successful people. They're running big companies, they've got busy lives. But it does take humility to do that. And, and I think that, that it's, it's a part of who we are.

Mario Ramirez  28:26  
It really is, you know, we, we talked about how so many universities now, you may get admitted to the university, but that doesn't mean that you're necessarily a part of that business school. You know, you need to apply again for that. In not in every case, you don't get in, in every case. Right. So, but here, we do we allow that. And I don't think we as a college, as you know, the Walton College. We're not we, although we're an elite school of business, we don't presume ourselves to be elitist. You know, we're not, we're not. We we're humble enough to be in that room and be open with these students. Make them feel comfortable. You know, because they're stressing over the past week. We got to go present before the board. They probably told their parents, I have this tomorrow. I'm really stressed about it. But yeah, hopefully they got in there and they felt comfortable. And they actually had good conversations and, you know, some of the board members are asking them can, can we ask them advice of you? You know, which is great.

Brent Williams  29:33  
You know, one thing I love about this state is, is just that, you know, hard work is still valued, ingenuity is still valued, humble. Humility is still valued. And it's really, really fun to get to see people like you and others on the Dean's Executive Advisory Board model that for those students that were in the room And, you know, you probably really don't know the kind of impact that ultimately makes. But it does make a difference.

Mario Ramirez  30:08  
Well, I hope it does, I think it does. And if that if we can convey that value to our students, in how we design our curriculum, and how we teach our students and how we, you know, carry ourselves, you know, in the public eye on, you know, even within the walls of the Walton College, I think that's, that's a homerun, you know, that's a, that's a value that you can't really, it's hard to teach in a class, you have to demonstrate it, I think it's sort of an intangible. It's, it's sort of an innate ability, that can be maybe trained through demonstration, as opposed to maybe being taught in a book. And it's so so important.

Brent Williams  31:00  
What you said couldn't be more right. Like, you know, like getting things in business done, often is about again, we'll go back to that the power of relationships and Mario, I'll say thank you for investing in the relationship with the Walton College and investing in our students and, and helping us by using, you know, that that network of relationships that you've created on our behalf, so thank you.

Mario Ramirez  31:29  
You're welcome. It's my pleasure, Brent, thank you for your leadership.

Brent Williams  31:32  
On behalf of the Walton College, thank you for joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected and never miss an episode, simply search for Be Epic on your preferred podcast service.

Brent D. Williams

Dr. Brent D. Williams serves as the Dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas and holder of the Sam M. Walton Leadership Chair.

With a deep commitment to fostering excellence in business education and thought leadership, Dr. Williams brings a wealth of experience to his role, shaping the future of the college and its impact on students and the business community. A native Arkansan, Dr. Williams earned his Ph.D. in Business Administration from the University of Arkansas, specializing in supply chain management.

As the Dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business, Dr. Williams is focused on advancing the college toward its vision of being a catalyst for transforming the lives of its students and a thought leader in business.