Michael Bender, president and CEO of Eyemart Express, sits down with Cindy Moehring on this episode of The BIS. With experience in both public and private companies, Bender shares his unique view of the effect of the stakeholder theory in each sector.
Bender and Moehring also touch on how COVID-19 has brought ESG to the forefront for many businesses and what advice Bender has for the future of business ethics and business ethics education.
Podcast:
Episode Transcript:
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0:00:15.6 Cindy Moehring: Hi everybody, and welcome back for another episode of The Business Integrity School. And today I'm fortunate to have with me Michael Bender. Hi, Michael. How are you?
0:00:24.8 Michael Bender: Good, Cindy. How are you? Nice to see you.
0:00:26.8 Cindy Moehring: Nice to see you, too. Now, before we jump into the podcast, I wanna tell you a little bit about Michael and how lucky we are to have him with us today. Michael is the president and the CEO of Eyemart Express, which is a 30-year-old eye care retailer with both an online presence and now over 225 physical locations in 41 states. So they're really growing, and growing fast. Michael also serves on the board of directors of Kohl's, which is a large department store chain in the US, which has over 1100 outlets and operations at every state except one, Hawaii. You gotta get there, Michael. [laughter] Prior to this, Michael had a very distinguished career, an executive career at Walmart, where he served as the Chief Operating Officer of Walmart e-commerce, and as an EVP over operations for Walmart stores in the US, on the Western side of the US.
0:01:20.8 Cindy Moehring: He also had very senior roles at Cardinal Health, which is a global integrated healthcare services and products company, Elle Brands, Victoria's Secret, an international specialty retailer, and PepsiCo, a global food and beverage company. And Michael is a graduate of Stanford University, and he has his MBA from Kellogg Graduate School of Management at Northwestern University. So Michael, thanks for being here. You have an incredibly, fabulous background and experiences that I think have just set you up perfectly for the role that you've been in now for about four years. You've had executive experience in both retail and in healthcare and online and offline. So it seems like it was probably a match made in heaven. Tell us a little bit about the company and some of the main advancements in the last four years.
0:02:13.1 Michael Bender: Sure, yeah. So as you had mentioned, Eyemart Express is a optical retailer, sits in that space here in the US, with over 225 stores in 41 states. One of the things that's really important about that business, it's private equity-backed, so that's a different experience for me, as you laid out my background, mainly being in public environments. And so right now the focus for us is on growing. It's a 30-year-old company that has had a wonderful track record as a family-run business. And over the last five years or so as private equity has gotten involved, the real mandate from our ownership has been to grow this wonderful model reliably and set it up for being able to scale even faster. And so we've been about working each of the functional areas of the business and building out strength within those functions, working on things like ways of working and decision-making, and building out the platform for actually building more stores and more units.
0:03:20.7 Michael Bender: But also with a focus, like I've had it in some of my previous experiences of bringing the digital capabilities that are emerging in the industry and within our company specifically, with that strong brick and mortar presence as well. In the optical space, we're advantaged because we actually have a lot of information that we can work with, so that helps us really understand who our customer is. It helps us understand where we need to go next in terms of building out additional sites. And it's been a fun experience so far in working in that space. I love the fact that we're able to bring healthcare and retail together with a little bit of fashion. Everybody's wearing glasses for different experiences.
0:03:58.3 Cindy Moehring: Yeah, yeah. Now, this last year has been tough for everybody with the pandemic, and you sit sort of at the juncture between retail and healthcare. How has it affected your business and how are you... What's some of the wisdom you've gained by leading through a pandemic.
0:04:17.1 Michael Bender: Yeah. And certainly 2020 was a year for the record book, and certainly we all can write a new chapter in our career history as a result of what we experienced and continue to experience. But for us, the impact that COVID has had on the business, like many retailers, we did actually have to close our stores for almost eight weeks last year, around this time actually, in late March through the early part of May. And during that period of time we focused, like many other retailers, on making sure that when we were able to re-open, whenever that was, that we can do it safely. And so we amassed lots of PPE and all the other things, and then really re-wrote the book about how we go to market and how we take care of our associates and take care of our customers in an environment that was still ever-evolving.
0:05:08.8 Michael Bender: Back then, as we know, there wasn't a whole lot known, and so we had to make sure that we were covering all the bases, as well as focusing on making sure that we had a business to come back to whenever we were able to open. So we had to make some tough decisions. We did furlough a lot of our associates, but we actually... Part of our culture is making sure that we're focused on the associate and really understanding that they are the ones that make the company go. So we did things like pay for their health insurance during the period of time that they were furloughed. We offered bonuses to them, as they left, and actually as they came back in as well.
0:05:47.9 Cindy Moehring: That's great.
0:05:49.2 Michael Bender: And through some of those efforts, we were able to maintain a strong connection with our associates even though they weren't working during that period of time and when we were able to open, literally the vast majority of our associates decided to come back and were very supportive of those decisions. So that was one of the big learnings. I think from a business standpoint, certainly the acceleration of e-commerce and when we closed our doors, because we're in the business of selling something that people need, we still had people saying, "Well, how am I gonna get my glasses if you're not open?"
0:06:25.8 Cindy Moehring: Right.
0:06:27.2 Michael Bender: And we had an e-commerce business that was already up and running and it just accelerated like a lot of other businesses these days. And we found that out of necessity we had to make some additional changes and build new capabilities during that time. They were closed very quickly, and so we learned a lot about ourselves, Cindy, during that period of time. That some of the decisions that we had put on the shelf and said, "We'll get to that later." We had to pull off the shelf and say, "Let's get on with this now."
0:06:53.0 Cindy Moehring: Yeah.
0:06:54.1 Michael Bender: And some of the ways that things happened in the business in terms of decision-making, we also learned a lot about how we could cut to the chase and make decisions more quickly to help the business continue to move forward. So lots of learnings, lots of twists and turns. Every day there was a new twist that came along, but at the center of our decisions during that period of time were always the health and safety of our associates and our customers. And then right along with that, making sure that all of our decisions led to us being able to have a strong business on the other side. That was sort of the mentality that we had as a team going through that period of time, and we're a healthy business and we're back up and running and have been since last May. And still navigating all the twists and turns, but doing well.
0:07:46.8 Cindy Moehring: Yeah. Well, it sounds like you did a good job navigating that without a playbook in terms of building trust with your customers and with your associates and all of your business partners. And that's gonna serve you well in the long run. There are a lot of reports actually that came out. Edelman does this Trust Barometer Report, has for over 20 years. They did some supplements during COVID and actually found that brands and companies that really put forth the effort, like you just described, in a very detailed way about with examples of what you had done to help your associates and put growth on the back burner a bit during the time, 'cause you kinda have to, are the companies that are really gonna shine on the other side of this. So it sounds like you're very well positioned.
0:08:32.2 Michael Bender: We were very deliberate and intentional about every decision that we made during that time, 'cause we knew how critical each decision happened to be and was proud of how the team came together. You learn a lot about the people that you work with and the people that you engage with when you're going through a period of time like that. And if anything, it's brought our team closer together, and when you have to go through the fire together and you actually still are winning on the other side, there's a certain amount of deeper bonding that goes on that we were really excited to be a part of.
0:09:06.6 Cindy Moehring: That's great. Well, so Eyemart Express is a private company, which you mentioned earlier. And your background prior to that was with a whole host and a large number of public companies, and as you know, and as we lived it together at Walmart for several years, there's a real microscope on public companies, when it comes to things like culture of integrity, when it comes to risk management controls, being public about what you're doing for the ESG effort, environment and social and governance issues. And so my question to you is, now that you've gone to the other side and worked for a private company for about four years, do you see that same focus on those kinds of issues in a private company?
0:09:51.0 Michael Bender: Yeah. It's a great question, and I can only speak for the company that I'm a part of and the firms that I've been attached to, but the good news is, the answer is yes. The firm that we work with and the company that I'm running, we are responsible every year for making sure that there's an ESG plan in place and a focus for our business on ESG, beyond just the dollars and cents and the transactions and the dollars that we deliver. So I would say that I think in a relative sense, because of the scrutiny that you mentioned that public companies are exposed to, I would say on the balance, there's probably more advancement and more maturity in the ESG plans that I've seen, now having seen some on the public side, and lots on the public side and a few now on the private side, but more and more now, I think private equity is certainly understanding that that's an important part of building a business, holistically as well.
0:10:52.4 Cindy Moehring: Yeah, I do too. I think Larry Fink's letter about a lot of those issues for BlackRock has kinda set a different tone, and it sounds like the investment company you work with and your company was ahead of that curve anyway, so that's great to see. So you know, Michael, more companies are staying private these days and are choosing to stay private, not only stay private, but stay private for longer. And with that privatisation or staying private does come less transparency into things that public companies have to report on quarterly, governance and numbers and metrics. And so I just wonder when knowing that trend is for companies to stay private and stay private longer, I wonder if that could potentially contribute to us seeing some greater increase in some bad governance and bad cultures of integrity. And what comes to mind for me are things like Theranos with Elizabeth Holmes and the blood-prick technology. And she had contracts with Walgreens and others going, and the company did. And WeWork with Adam Neumann had huge plans, and in fact WeWorks had to pare back on a lot of those. So do you think that it's being private that had anything to do with that? Do you think it was just the start-up mentality? Something else? What do you think?
0:12:11.1 Michael Bender: Yeah. I think there's enough bad behavior, both in public and private domains, [chuckle] that I'm not so sure that it's either one of those, and I would say it's really more about the tone at the top. And to me that has less to do with whether you've decided to go or to stay private or to go public. And it's more about who is leading the charge, whether it's on a private side, and in the case of my situation. I'm in lockstep with our ownership group about the things that are important for us to focus on as a business. We establish right up front the norms and the ways that we wanna work and what's important, and at the top of that. And, Cindy, you've worked with me before. Integrity, integrity, integrity is kind of the big push.
0:13:03.2 Michael Bender: So for me, I think a lot of it is more about making sure that the firms have the ability to have the right tone at the top, and that that is something that is endorsed, supported outwardly and reinforced day in and day out. So that's my perspective, and that's what I've seen, and like I said, I think there's... You see bad behavior in both of those settings, and I think usually when you see that, you can point right back to the top of the organisation or somewhere near there allowing bad behavior, because it is a choice. Right? Everybody leading a company today can say, "This is what I stand for." And reinforce it and make sure that the decisions lead to good outcomes for all the constituencies or not. And in the cases where that's not the case, you can literally point back, in most instances, to the big person or a group of people who have decided that they'd like to go in that direction, which I would never endorse. [chuckle]
0:14:15.2 Cindy Moehring: Right, right. So how do you make sure at a private company that new employees coming in, thinking about business students, just getting out of school here and looking for a job and you're out trying to hire people 'cause you're trying to grow. How do you make sure that they understand and get a true sense of what the company is really like? Because there's no public documents necessarily for them to go to to get a feel for that. So how do you make sure that they have a sense of the culture of integrity and everything else at the company, and it's ESG efforts?
0:14:49.3 Michael Bender: Yeah. I think, to me, it's as simple as just making sure that the leadership talks about it. In addition to saying it's important for us to make this kind of money and our growth looks like this, and I wanna open this number of stores. Right along with that conversation needs to be, "And this is what we stand for as an organisation. These are our values, our principles, how we treat people." And then just reinforcing that day in and day out, and making sure that you're doing the best job you can of hiring people who want to be in that kind of setting and appreciate the value that those values can bring to the organisation. That's really the simplest way, I guess that I would say, and then just modeling that behavior day in and day out. Being consistent in the way that you deliver that from a leadership standpoint, that to me is so important. The best leaders that I've worked for are the ones who definitely set a high bar for performance, but also reinforce that with, "We will always do it the right way." And stay on the right side of the law, if you will. [chuckle]
0:16:01.9 Cindy Moehring: Right, right.
0:16:04.1 Michael Bender: And never push too close to that, where your integrity and your values are compromised. That's a hard thing to claw back from if you ever get yourself in that situation. And I think just about every day, you can pick up the paper and read about someone, very smart people who've made a bad choice. And it ruins lives and families and reputations and careers.
0:16:31.3 Cindy Moehring: And it's just so unfortunate because it is so unnecessary, but it also then re-emphasizes why it isn't a one-and-done in terms of the conversation. Like you just said, it's walking the talk every day and continuing to emphasize it. Because here we are, 2021, and my own personal opinion isn't necessarily that conduct has gotten worse, but we live in this transparent world now where information is more readily available, and there aren't as many places to hide. So bad behavior can find the light of day quite easily, but it is disheartening that it's in the paper so much. It does mean that I think we just have to continue to double down on it and keep everybody going.
0:17:14.3 Michael Bender: I think part of it also for us, and then I've tried to manage things during my career, Cindy, is when you talk about goal setting and we'd just come off of that process inside of our company, there's a fine line between setting an aggressive target where someone says, "Wow, that's gonna make me have to stare at the wall at midnight and really think creatively about how we get there."
0:17:35.9 Cindy Moehring: Yes.
0:17:37.7 Michael Bender: Versus someone says, "I have no idea how we're gonna get there, and the only way it seems like we're gonna be able to do it is if we sort of screwed around the system or cut corners." And so I've always tried to make sure that, yes, we lean hard into making sure that we have aggressive goals that can be met, and that there's an opportunity to push yourself to think more creatively. But I'm very keen on also making sure that you don't cross that line where people just throw their hands up in the air and their minds start going to bad places about how they have to get there.
0:18:09.7 Cindy Moehring: Yeah, yeah. That's all the company really cares about is that we meet the goals and they don't really care about how we do it. So yeah, it's a fine line that you have to walk because you do need to make money. [laughter] That's why the company is in business is to make money. But to do that in the right way. So yeah. So let's talk a little bit more then about the difference between public and private companies and the Business Roundtable's recent pronouncement that they changed after many, many years from the Milton Friedman position of the stockholder is supreme, and that is the one and only and primary, I just should say, purpose of a corporation to now more of a stakeholder theory. When they're talking about what the purpose of a corporation is and really recognising that it's there to serve the associates and the employees and the customers and the communities, as well as the shareholder. So it isn't really an either/or, the way they have positioned it. But that's a group of very large organisations, public organisations, and so I guess my question to you is, do you think that same shareholder theory has sort of, is this still reign supreme, if you will, in the private company world, or do you think that it has moved more to a stakeholder view as well. Where do you think they are on the continuum generally.
0:19:34.3 Michael Bender: Yeah. And again, my experience has been in a positive one so far in my involvement with private equity, and what I would say is that, yes, again, private equity understands that it's more than just making the money. That is absolutely [chuckle] what has to happen, and that certainly is a key metric that everybody drives to do in this space. But also there's a firm understanding that to do that, you have to take all those other customers, as we call them, into account. Shareholders, customers, our associates, NGOs, all the others that are involved in really helping a company holistically perform at its highest level. And to me, the most enlightened organisations whether it's a private or public, are the ones that actually fully embrace that, so what the Business Roundtable has articulated, now, I think it's spot on in terms of what the role of an organisation is going forward. You and I spent time at Walmart, and we understand the theory or the concept of servant leadership. It's almost the servant-leadership model from a business standpoint of...
0:20:51.9 Cindy Moehring: It is. Yeah.
0:20:53.8 Michael Bender: "What is your purpose as a business? It's to actually serve your customers and then your constituents." And that is now a broader group of individuals than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago.
0:21:04.3 Cindy Moehring: Right, right, right. Yeah, because back then, it wasn't really talked about much at all in business schools or in business. So do you think it's here to stay?
0:21:14.7 Michael Bender: I do, I do. And I think it'll only expand as we move forward. And what's interesting to me, Cindy, is the transition to how all those different constituents now have a voice. And that's one of the things that I've seen happen over the last 10 or 20 years of my career is that, pick your lane, but whether it's sustainability or a focus on diversity. Groups within those segments and all others now have found a really strong voice and understand that the influence that they can have for good is something that they're exercising that right, if you will, much more than you've ever seen before. And even in these last couple of years, it's been even moreso.
0:22:06.1 Michael Bender: Companies have to listen to those voices now, and if they don't, consumers will make the choice to say, "I have another option to go to, because this company doesn't stand for what I believe in." And companies now, the smart ones, are making themselves into organisations that actually are keeping step, instep with the customers that they serve. Which that's the role of a company, understand the customer and make sure that you're providing what they need for them. And the best companies, I think, are ones that are doing that. It's actually very exciting to see, because they're playing a greater role in society beyond just making the dollars and cents. They have to do that, like you and I were just saying, but the role that they can play on social issues and the rest are really exciting to see how companies are picking their lanes.
0:23:04.6 Cindy Moehring: So with that in mind, let me ask you, so if you think the stakeholder theory is here to stay. And if you think out into the future of business, and think about the future of business integrity and ESG and where we're all headed into the future. If you only had three words to describe what the future of business integrity, doing business responsibly, should be or you hope that it will be, what would those be?
0:23:40.1 Michael Bender: Yeah, that's a great question. I've thought about this a lot too, 'cause I think words are important. Right? The first word that comes to mind is transparency. I think more and more now, that's what is being demanded from all the different constituency groups that support and are part of an ecosystem for an organisation. So businesses will have to be more and more transparent, sharing information to help everyone understand really what are they about? And how do they do what they do? Secondly, we just talked about it. I'm using the word integration or integrated. Collaboration, I think is another good word that comes to mind for what I was thinking about when you asked that question.
0:24:31.6 Michael Bender: But making sure that all the different groups that need to be in on a conversation about what's important for an organisation would be another another big piece. And as you'd mentioned, going it alone these days is probably not the best way to do it, 'cause you're not gonna get the comprehensive answer. And that leads me to maybe the third word that I would describe would be inclusive. To make sure that there are all the right people sitting around the table with the appropriate points of view and the pertinent points of view for whatever the issue is that we're trying to solve for. So it's not just a group of business people sitting in the room saying, "This is what we think should happen to solve this problem in society." But it's business, NGOs, churches, [chuckle] and whoever needs to be in it and having the willingness and the comfort to be able to say, "I'm okay with having other input and other pieces of input from various parts of this problem that we're trying to solve in on the discussion."
0:25:43.9 Cindy Moehring: Yeah. I think that is super important too, as technology becomes more pervasive in business, you can't just have a group of technology folks, information systems, kinda in-the-room engineers doing it on their own. Because there are a number of issues that come up, ethics-related or otherwise, that if you don't take that inclusive approach that you're talking about with thinking about it in the Agile methodology with everybody around the table who's got a stake in that decision, helping to inform what the technologists are gonna go away and do. And to come back with a piece of tech that has all the governance it needs and it works in the right way and solves the business problem and doesn't exacerbate with artificial intelligence, any discriminatory or other unethical effects to it, which could really, really cause those issues down the road. So let me ask you one other question then, what do you think is the most important things for business schools, just one or two, maybe three, to be focusing on these days to best prepare students to enter, what I will call, a disruptive business world right now, and one that I think will continue to be disruptive in the future. What are the most important attributes? Because I think they've changed, to help prepare these students. What do you think they are right now?
0:27:05.8 Michael Bender: I think in addition to continuing to teach, what I say, the core fundamentals of business, whether it's marketing or finance or whatever it may be, keep doing that. That's awesome. But this rising focus on ethics, I think is a really important part of what should be included in every curriculum in a business school these days. And I know you're leading a very important and exciting effort there, but I know schools that have said, that's still not important. And I just think that that's more and more that will distinguish the people within a company differently, if you have people coming out already knowing that that's a part of what needs to be thought about in addition to, yes, we need to make the numbers and have great marketing plans and all those kind of thing. That would be one. I would say, I would love to see a more service-oriented curriculum in business schools as well, and by that specifically, I mean, again, this servant-leadership type of a thought process that one of the requirements of your time in business school is to serve. [chuckle]
0:28:22.6 Michael Bender: And that could come in the form of a lot of different ways of doing that, but I think that kind of mentality coupled with, yes, the go get 'em and knock down the goals mentality that often is taught in business schools, is really important to provide that kind of balance that I think leaders in the future will need to be able to have. Empathy, understanding, in addition to, yes, the big focus on driving for results. That balance, I would see leaders in the future, needing to embrace more and more of that. And then maybe lastly, just exposing students to these kinds of discussions like the one that we're having today. To me, the most exciting part of going through business school when I went through it was having exposure to others who I can look up to and say, "Okay, that's maybe the model that I wanna try to run to." Not just because they hit their numbers all the time or that they're the CEO of a company, but because they're a human being that understands, yes, we have a business to run, but there's a human side of that as well, that's really important. So those are a few things that I would say are important as we think about the teaching in a business school environment going forward.
0:29:50.0 Cindy Moehring: That's great. Thank you. Those are, I think, really good points. Really good points. Well, this time together has been great, and I always like to end on some fun questions at the end. We've all had a little more time during COVID to read or watch TV or listen to some podcasts, and I find that people are always looking for new suggestions or something that's interesting. So what have you watched or read or listened to lately for fun, but that you found also have kind of this interesting ethical dilemma to it. Anything come to mind for you?
0:30:25.9 Michael Bender: Yeah. There are maybe two things I could point to. One is a book. It's called "101 Ethical Dilemmas". It's by a gentleman by the name of Martin Cohen, and it's just a fun book that presents the 101 ethical dilemmas that you have to think your way through, and it's a fun way to do it. It's nothing so serious, but one of the things that is really neat about it also is that it gives you a range of those ethical dilemmas from today, and it takes you all the way back through history, the Roman Empire and those kinds of things that people back in those days faced and it just challenges your mind to think about, "Okay, what would I do in that situation?" So that's one.
0:31:11.4 Cindy Moehring: That's awesome.
0:31:13.1 Michael Bender: I think, from a movie that I've watched recently, and I don't know if you've seen it, Cindy, but it's called "Dark Waters" with Mark Ruffalo.
0:31:22.7 Cindy Moehring: I've not watched that one yet, but I've heard about it. Now, I'm gonna have to move it up on my list. Okay.
0:31:27.9 Michael Bender: It's an interesting story, and his character is a lawyer inside DuPont, and DuPont has contaminated the whole water system in this rural community. And it's the whole story of his journey through that period of time where he ends up actually going to the other side basically, [chuckle] and saying, "We actually did do wrong here." And it was just an interesting story as I watched the movie, so that's one recommendation.
0:32:00.1 Cindy Moehring: Those are great. Thank you for those suggestions, and I think they're both very timely and both very good. So I appreciate that. Well, Michael, this has been a fabulous conversation. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with all of us. It has just been enlightening, and it's been good to see you again and be able to have the conversation, even if it's via Zoom. So [chuckle] I appreciate it.
0:32:22.6 Michael Bender: Absolutely. I appreciate you allowing me to do it, and it's always good to be with you, Cindy.
0:32:26.9 Cindy Moehring: Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you to all of you for listening or watching this week's episode of The Business Integrity School, and we'll be back again next week with another episode. See you then. Bye-bye.
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