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Walton College

The Sam M. Walton College of Business

Bonus Episode | Advice for Students from Marketing Luminary Kevin Roberts

Kevin Roberts
April 05, 2021

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If you had the opportunity to ask a world-renowned marketing pioneer and best-selling author one question, what would you ask? For a few Sam M. Walton College of Business Marketing Department students, they had that very opportunity.

On this bonus episode of It's a Customer's World Podcast, Andy Murray welcomes Kevin Roberts, author of Lovemarks and the previous CEO of Saatchi and Saatchi, to answer some of Marketing Professor Molly Rapert's students' questions about Lovemarks, marketing, life, and career choices.

Find out more about Molly Rapert, the student’s highly suggested professor

Learn more about Kevin Roberts.


Episode Transcript:

0:00:00.4 Andy Murray: Hi, I'm Andy Murray. Welcome to It's a Customer's World Podcast. Now, more than ever, retailers and brands are accelerating their quest to be more customer-centric, but to be truly customer-centric, it requires both a shift in mindset and ways of working, not just in marketing, but in all parts of the organization. In this podcast series, I'll be talking with practitioners, thought leaders, and scholars to hear their thoughts on what it takes to be a leader in today's customer-centric world.


0:00:41.7 Andy Murray: Hello. In this special bonus episode of It's a Customer's World, I invited advertising industry legend, Kevin Roberts to take on 21 University of Arkansas students in a free-flowing no questions off-limits session to get his thoughts on marketing, building Lovemarks, career advice and lessons he's learned on his journey, and Kevin did not disappoint. In true Kevin style, he shared candid advice, anecdotes and wonderful stories that I found truly inspiring. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.


0:01:24.8 Andy Murray: Welcome everyone to this special episode where I've got the privilege of being with two really special people, Molly Rapert, who's an outstanding professor at the University of Arkansas and a great friend and a very innovative marketer. And joining us is Kevin Roberts, who needs no introduction. Kevin, a long lifetime mentor of mine, which blame him for anything that I say, and Kevin has generously offered to give us 90 minutes of question and A, unchained live feedback on some of the toughest questions that Molly and her class has genned up for us to respond to. So we have about 21 students or so, that have thought about some things that are important to them and have some questions for Kevin, so Molly, I'm gonna turn it over to you to introduce students and get us going. And before I do, Kevin, do you wanna say anything before we get started?

0:02:22.4 Kevin Roberts: Well, I'm real close to you guys, I'm in Carefree, Arizona, where I've been for the last 12 months out in the desert here isolating. So this actually is a highlight of my day because I'm gonna talk to 21 new friends. Desperation has many friends, right?


0:02:39.3 Kevin Roberts: So I'm on this to have fun. My personal focus is to make happy choices, and there is nothing in the world that I would rather be doing now, than this, otherwise, why be doing it, okay? So I'm up for this. You can ask me anything you want, this is everything you wanted to know about leadership, business life, your plans and were afraid to ask, so it's gonna be unplugged, unfiltered, and uncut. So have fun, I'm done here.

0:03:14.7 Andy Murray : Okay, Molly, with that.

0:03:17.9 Molly Rapert: Thank you. I'm so delighted to welcome my amazing Rapert marketing students, but first I'd like to say thank you to Andy and Kevin and Caitlin for all they've done to make today happen. I've taught for 30 years and I can promise you that I never anticipated a day where I would have an advocate as strong as Andy, and to be on a Zoom with Kevin Roberts, this is really amazing for me as a long-time fan of both of you and thank you for serving my students so well and allowing all of us this opportunity. It's a happy choice for me, Kevin.


0:03:50.6 Kevin Roberts: I bet you say that to all the boys.

0:03:55.3 Molly Rapert: I do not. I do not.


0:04:00.9 Taylor Zatarain: Hi. My name is Taylor Zatarain, and I Andy Murray a senior marketing major with a minor in management. Upon graduation...

0:04:08.4 Kevin Roberts: With a minor in what?

0:04:09.7 Taylor Zatarain: Management.

0:04:10.5 Kevin Roberts: Oh, okay.

0:04:11.7 Taylor Zatarain: And upon graduation in May, I will begin my career in the tech industry at Qualtrics. And Kevin, when talking about Lovemarks, which you describe as 'Loyalty Beyond Reason' you mentioned that marketing is dead. The role of marketing is to create a movement, it's no longer about building a brand. As a soon-to-be graduate who has just spent four years studying marketing, this is exhilarating and concerning at the same time. What would be your best advice for me to keep top of mind and take into my future career that will allow me to be the most valuable hire to a company that I can be?

0:04:51.7 Kevin Roberts: Okay, I wrote a book called 64 Shots, which was 64 ideas about leadership, and in one of the early chapters, I talked about the need to write a personal purpose on a page, to actually spell out your inspirational dream. To really spell out who you are, your character attributes, what you believe and not the normal nonsense, right? Vision, goals, objectives, all this garbage. No, this is real. What's your dream? Who are you? What is your spirit? What's your very DNA? What gets you out of bed in the morning? What turns you on? What makes you happy? What is your focus? At your tender age for the next five years, what little footprints do you wanna leave in the sand? So I recommend you get a hold of that book on Kindle or wherever and read about personal purpose, because if you don't know where you're going, all roads will take you there, right?

0:05:57.6 Kevin Roberts: I think the second thing for me is, I don't know what advice you've been given, but it's an important decision, your next decision to go somewhere and make an impact, but it's not a vital decision. The next 10 years for you should be experimental. They should be a joy of discovery, a voyage of curiosity, a voyage of finding out stuff, a voyage that is full of new and full of exploration and just full of fun, it should be the decisions you make now, make the big decisions with your heart Taylor not with your head, all these SWOTS strengths, weaknesses, threats, opportunities that's yesterday's thinking, you just gonna make a big decision with your heart, follow your passion and then when you screwed up in six months just leave and start over Okay, just toss it man it's experience and then go to the next one, travel, poof. Now, it's a great time after this panic... Pandemic to imagine the unimaginable, to change everything because if we go backwards what a tragedy so you're in a great moment Saatchi & Saatchi Andy will tell you we believe nothing is impossible so make the big decisions with your heart, have a personal purpose, look to make impact and have no fear, have no fear.

0:07:54.3 Taylor Zatarain: Thank you.

0:07:55.8 Kevin Roberts: The world is waiting for you not the other way round.

0:08:00.1 Andy Murray: Yeah, I could just add to that, what Kevin just said is so true, I can't tell you how many meetings I was in with Kevin or brought him a really tough problem, by the time problems get to Kevin they're pretty big and the advice was what's your heart say, that's a big decision, make that one with your heart and so it's not just a motto it's a real way of... These principles work in business, they absolutely work in business and we're so data-rich but heart poor that it was really refreshing to have that perspective but yeah, I just wanted to pipe in, that's the way you actually lead.

0:08:40.9 Molly Rapert: And I selfishly have to say this is my favorite topic so far because this semester I have three executives from Procter and Gamble and VMLY&R who are investing about 20 hours with my students and digging deep into their values, beliefs, passion, we're not even talking about marketing concepts we're just... And it will be this Thursday so I'm delighted to hear this, thank you so much.

0:09:05.6 Kevin Roberts: Well, good for you that's a good initiative.

0:09:08.1 Molly Rapert: Great initiative. Okay, next we have Danny and she has a question about mystery for us.

0:09:12.7 Dani Martinez: Hi, I'm Dani Martinez, I'm a Senior Marketing major with a minor in management from Rogers, Arkansas, I'm interested in non-profit and social media marketing and I wanted to know how you would suggest businesses find a balance between being transparent enough to gain people's trust and respect but also holding back enough to keep things mysterious.

0:09:36.4 Kevin Roberts: That's a really mysterious question and very, very deep question Dani, that's a little cruel, I'm an old man you know you should be going easier on me than that. The first thing I'm gonna say is that revolution begins with language, revolution begins with language that's how we change worlds, that's how we create movements initially with language, and you're probably learning that and I wanna comment on one word you used, how would you suggest business finds a balance. I hate the word balance so balance to me implies balance, moderation, I have to compromise, I have to give something up, I don't wanna live my life like that, one of the words in my personal purpose is uncompromising, I don't buy balance, work-life balance I think is a crock of average mediocrity, what I think we should use is the word blend, the best wines are not balanced they're a blend of different grapes, Cab Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet which when you blend them like an alchemist, like a magician you get ecstasy and I don't mean the drug, you get into a great place so I think how...

0:11:18.5 Kevin Roberts: The question that you're asking is, how do we blend trust and respect where we are open and we share at the same time we want mystery and all I can tell you is just go watch Netflix because they do this fantastically, man, they keep you every... I've just been watching a show ZeroZeroZero which is Roberto Saviano on Amazon which is an amazing production, he wrote Gomorrah and this guy involves you, he's transparent about drug smuggling, he's transparent about corruption, he's transparent about the complexity of the cartel in Mexico and low income and the strippers who are all Americans from New Orleans and the Calabria, the mafia in Italy he's transparent but the mystery is unbelievable, you binge watch stuff right unless you're some kind of real... So how do these great do... And they do it through one word, Dani, which is story sharing, not story-telling, story-telling is dead, we don't wanna be told the story we wanna be involved, engaged in the story, when you're creating a brand forget telling a story even when you're talking to little kids, three and five year old they wanna be in the story, they wanna share it with you so somehow you've got to use language, innovation, creativity, imagination all this stuff to share your story to involve your customer. Okay. Blend, not balance, ban the word, we ban the balance.

0:13:13.8 Molly Rapert: So our next topic is one that you've already touched on briefly talking about being nomadic and a vagabond, but I think Manny is gonna have us drill deeper into that.

0:13:25.7 Manny Mejia: Thank you so much, Kevin, for coming to do this. My name is Manny Mejia. I graduated back in 2019 with an accounting degree and I'm...

0:13:36.4 Kevin Roberts: Oh. Wash your mouth out Manny, wash your mouth out and then you saw the light.

0:13:45.3 Manny Mejia: Yes, and now I'm finishing my last semester of my MBA, I'm getting it in the marketing, so...

0:13:51.2 Kevin Roberts: Good boy.

0:13:53.5 Manny Mejia: Interestingly enough, this summer, I actually will begin my career at PepsiCo as an associate sales manager. So maybe one day in my career, I'll follow in your footsteps and destroy a vending machine here and there, but anyways, I did hear you once say that people should spend their 20s being nomadic, that is exploring, connecting, collaborating...

0:14:16.6 Kevin Roberts: Absolutely.

0:14:17.2 Manny Mejia: And making a difference, but is there like anything in particular, that you think people in their 20s place as a low priority that you believe in fact they should actually place as a higher one?

0:14:30.2 Kevin Roberts: First thing I think is to do an accounting degree and then marketing, that's a really... That's a bloody good option. Good for you, you've got IQ, you've gotta read the data, you gotta understand the numbers, you gotta understand the P&L, you gotta understand the leverage. It's a smart discipline to do. It's just kind of boring. So you've got that foundation. Fantastic. Now, add some flare, it'll help you in a sales situation 'cause you're gonna be... Yeah, I think it's good IQ stuff. The EQ stuff, fantastic. Great. Going to PepsiCo, great seven years, competitive, aggressive, smart. Time I was there, they were... And they're very diverse and all that. Time I was there, the big line that they used to tell me was, ready, fire, aim, in that order. And I said, What? No, no. You got... Then they said no, no, no, look. Get ready, fire, boof, and then correct your aim. Don't waste your time, by the time you've got the first shot off, you've got more knowledge than the other guy who's still busy aiming and he still has to correct. So ready, fire, aim. And it's from there that I learned fail fast, learn fast, fix fast. So going to PepsiCo is a great move. Going into sales, great move.

0:15:52.3 Kevin Roberts: I went on a sales training at P&G for five months, probably there I learned more in that five months than I learned in two years in many places, because you're right there with customers, you're seeing consumers, you're having to flex, brilliant way to start your nomadic journey. One thing people, I think could learn is standards. I think a lot of people your age think they can multitask, which is bullshit, because all they do is they watch, they text, they listen and they do them all averagely. Okay, and they believe they're these genius multitaskers. I don't think so at all, I have lots of evidence to suggest that, I have six kids and nine grandkids, so I know of which I speak. Okay. And when they multitask, they're crap. Okay. I think you guys have gotta learn standards and in terms of your own aspirations, people... I don't know, Jim Collins wrote about it. But the enemy of great is good. A lot of young people do things good enough, good enough and good enough is never good enough Manny. Good enough is never good enough. The way you do anything is the way you do everything.

0:17:24.6 Kevin Roberts: I'm judging you now based on your sports stuff, based on the way you dress, the jacket, the haircut, because I don't... I can't be with you, so I don't... I can only see... I judge you by the quality of the question, the way you handled with my... Coming at you differently. And you look buttoned-down, you look already Pepsi pretty, you look like you're Pepsi. That's bloody smart. So I would think... I would urge you and your compatriots to think bigger, think faster, have high standards now, and you have one life, man. This is it. So should make it count. Have fun and look for greatness.

0:18:20.6 Manny Mejia: For sure. Thank you so much.

0:18:23.0 Molly Rapert: Thank you so much, Manny.

0:18:25.5 Monica Uribe: My name is Monica Uribe. I'm from Fort Smith, Arkansas and I'm currently a senior and marketing major and my...

0:18:31.5 Kevin Roberts: One of our best, best, best regional managers was Alberto Uribe. He is a brilliant guy at P&G. Anyway, go on.

0:18:42.3 Monica Uribe: Yeah, my question for you, Kevin, is you have mentioned that you joined Procter & Gamble in order to learn the language of business. If you're 25 year old Kevin today, what company would you go to to learn the language of business and would it still be P&G, why or why not?

0:18:58.2 Kevin Roberts: Well, I think Manny is great for going to PepsiCo because they're... With their brands, they're at the heart of pop culture. Procter & Gamble taught me everything I know about leadership and about values. They taught me about focus, commitment, discipline. Focus, commitment, discipline, they are not the most creative they're not the most innovative. Mary gave me that stuff but P&G man, they instilled upon me, you gotta do what's right when no one's looking. You gotta do what's right when no one's looking and I never forgot that and they are driven by purpose, by principles, by value. John Pepper, Ed Artzt, AG Lafley.

0:19:57.1 Kevin Roberts: They are a real... Yeah, lovemark for me. I'm still friendly with everyone I work with. So P&G is still... I don't know how old they are now, 180 years old or whatever. They are impressive on the leadership front, on a marketing front, and so on. They're not the best though now. For me, if I had to answer your direct question, Where would I go to learn the language of business, the basics of business? There's only one answer for me and that's Amazon. Jeff Bezos is a fruitcake, right, and I hope at least now he's a happy fruitcake with his new relationship and his new executive chairmanship. But man, I worked with Amazon, I had them as a client for a while, I work with them now I'm on a board of a grocery chain in the UK and we do a lot of business through Amazon. Andy knows it's a boutique chain Booths.

0:21:02.6 Kevin Roberts: Some of my best friends work there. I don't like them as a company, I don't like them. I don't like the way they treat their people. They burn them out and all this stuff but I hold them in. It's not a long-term career, right, but man, these guys. Amazon make every company they work with better. They do this stuff, they are on it, the last detail... They're on the last detail, they're functionally brilliant, they're strategically sound and they are way more innovative than Apple and they are way more innovative than Tesla and they are way more innovative and imaginative than all Facebook and all these glory guys. They value innovation imagination. They just sweat you, you're just an asset for them. You're a renewable asset, you've got a three-year burnout time so you've gotta leave two years in and screw them before they do it to you before you get burned out but the learning you will get is immense. They know more about consumers and customers than you know about yourself. They know more about you than Apple 'cause you told them everything and they use AI brilliantly.

0:22:32.8 Kevin Roberts: So I love P&G, respect P&G I would never turn them down. PepsiCo, you learn to be a warrior and to compete. Amazon, you become a man or a woman of steel if you can suck it up for two years 'cause you have no personal life, no private life but everything else, boom you get sharp elbows.

0:23:00.1 Andy Murray: Yeah, Kevin, I would just pile on here, and I think you're absolutely spot on. That would be the company I would pick for sure, for sure and for the same reasons but I think the other thing that's important about that is you learn velocity and at the speed of decision-making. The new game now it is velocity and so you're not gonna learn velocity in typical CPG because you got 18-month development times and you just need that speed to get life learning in the amount of time you're gonna spend there, so yeah.

0:23:30.5 Kevin Roberts: Would Walmart make a shortlist for you Andy or not?

0:23:33.8 Andy Murray: I thought, I was thinking about that. And I think more macro, any retailer it's just interesting that that retail space is so fast and it's a fast game.

0:23:44.1 Kevin Roberts: Yeah I like that.

0:23:44.8 Andy Murray: And you get speed whether it's the Booths in the UK. I would take that, I would take any retailer that's dealing with... It took to learn business and customer and data and all the things that have to happen. You just get the fullest perspective in the shortest amount of time and you'll work dog years in a week.

0:24:03.7 Kevin Roberts: Yeah you have the supplier thing, you have the consumer thing, you have the media thing. I think it's food retailer I'm not sure it's... Not food or...

0:24:13.0 Andy Murray: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's fashion yeah, I think you're right. It's something that's got that transaction velocity where you see your idea, you put it in play and you know.

0:24:21.6 Kevin Roberts: Yeah, I mean, If you get a job at Whole Foods it's a really interesting combination of the two things.

0:24:29.2 Andy Murray: Yeah.

0:24:29.9 Kevin Roberts: Yeah.

0:24:30.0 Molly Rapert: We are going to jump to leadership as a topic and Maddie is going to kick us off.

0:24:34.4 Maddie Braun: Hi, my name is Maddie Braun and I'm from Kansas City, Missouri. I'm double-majoring in marketing and supply chain and minoring in Economics. And I viewed a podcast where you mentioned that the world lacks leadership, hope and optimism. And how would you describe your leadership style, and as a leader, how have you tried to bring more hope and optimism?

0:25:01.4 Kevin Roberts: Why don't you ask Andy 'cause I was his leader for a while. Andy how would you answer that?

0:25:08.1 Andy Murray: Yeah. Well, lots of different ways. I'll give you a couple of quick stories that would probably put it in perspective. When Kevin... We sold the company to Saatchi and I hadn't had a boss in 10 years so I didn't really...


0:25:30.4 Andy Murray: Remember what that was like. And I remember after the bank cleared the check calling up Kevin and said, "Okay, boss, I haven't had a boss a long time what is this about and what do we do?" And his response was and I'll never forget it was, "First of all never call me boss, think of me as your older brother. You're my younger brother let's go change the world." And that was it, that was all he said and I think that was inspiring... He knew what I needed to hear as an entrepreneur that was trying to get back into what this bigger holding company world was like and the attitude that I needed to have and I think that was brilliant. And so I think I've learned so many things from a leadership side of actual leadership that I call that actual leadership or sitting down in a performance review which we didn't have that often and saying, "Okay, you already know what you're good at, why should I sit here and tell you what you're not good at, 'cause you're not gonna change that anyway at your age." And so why don't you just focus on the things that you're really good at and again, that's knowing his audience and knowing what I needed.

0:26:38.7 Andy Murray: I don't know if you said that to everybody but it certainly got me focused on the things I could really make a difference in and my strengths and so I could give you loads and loads of anecdotes like that of authentic leadership that comes at it from a very different angle than what most people do and I think if you read the book "64 Shots" a lot of those things that I learned and saw first hand from looking at a 90-day plan or a 100-day plan, looking at all the elements of practices, I think most of your best practices of leadership are in "64 Shots" and so I use that over and over again and so that's my two cents.

0:27:17.7 Kevin Roberts: Thank you Andy, so to summarize your question which was great, I practice inspirational leadership, Andy talked about it, not management, not control, management is doing things right leadership is doing the right things, so when I hear you're all minoring in management that makes me really worried 'cause that means you're gonna do things right, I take that as a very important building block and I'm glad 'cause doing things wrong is not super helpful all the time but it's not the point, I wish you were majoring in leadership, minoring in leadership not management, management doing things right, leadership doing the right things. My view is not command and control, it's not servant leadership or any of this nonsense you read about it is inspirational leadership. The role of the leader you just heard Andy describe what it was like, is frankly to inspire everyone you touch to be the best they can be so I look at Andy and see an entrepreneur who hasn't had a boss just show him the goal post and get out of the way, you get someone who's come from P&G that won't work for them because they're used to having their hand held and lead and directed and discussed so your role as a leader inspire everyone to be the best they can be. Your second job is, as a leader, create other leaders, create other leaders, we don't want followers, I'm now talking to you because you're the leaders of tomorrow I think, does that help?

0:29:04.4 Maddie Braun: Yes, thank you so much.

0:29:08.0 Molly Rapert: We are going to turn to our last topic and that is life and I believe Katelyn is going to start us off with a great question.

0:29:17.0 Katelyn Collison: Hi, my name's Katelyn Collison, I'm from Edmond, Oklahoma, I'm an international marketing major and a minor in Spanish and my question is, what is something you know now that you would go back in time and tell your younger self?

0:29:32.1 Kevin Roberts: So I'm saying two things, I've been asked this question before because people are looking... Lesson to yourself and all this stuff and Bob Seelert who was a chairman at Saatchi & Saatchi and a really influential guy for both Andy and I and he approved the extortionate price that we bought Andy's company for, that Saatchi is still paying for, but luckily Andy paid it back to us in two years through outstanding results, but it's now afforded under the millionaire lifestyle to which he's become accustomed because he did in truth build an unstoppable lovemark in the company.

0:30:19.8 Kevin Roberts: Bob Seelert told me, he actually wrote a book about it, "Start With The Answer and Work Back." Start With The Answer and Work Back, so make sure you have a dream Caitlin, make sure you have a focus that you can articulate in one sentence and work back from that. I had a dream when I was 14, I had another one when I was 21 and I'm really pleased I had that, what I didn't do which I would do is what my focus is now which is make happy choices. I made a lot of choices that didn't make me happy for all kinds of reasons that I convinced myself, for money, for location, for experience, for learning and I was wrong to do that, I should have backed myself more, made happier choices, it's like people say, "Should I take a job for the money or because I love it?" And I took jobs in those days sometimes for the money 'cause there was big money flowing around and I wanted to make my family secure, 'cause I had a kid when I was 17 and I wanted to make them secure and stuff and...

0:31:43.8 Kevin Roberts: I don't know if it was the right thing to do. My advice now to my own kids, all six of them, was, and they followed it was, when you make a choice like that, make the choice that you're passionate about, and then figure out how to make money out of that. So follow your passion and then figure out how to make money, and if you're smart, the money will come. And if not...

0:32:09.5 CC: Thank you.

0:32:10.0 Kevin Roberts: Worse that can happen is you're happy.

0:32:12.9 Molly Rapert: I want to say I've been thinking about how different some of my students are and their interests, and I think the one thing they all have in common is they're raised in an era of technology, so I'm going to try and do one more thing, as you gave the advice to Mackenzie, one other thing, and I'd like to bring on Jonah for one last question about technology, because I think this is something that each student on this call will face as a challenge.

0:32:42.1 Jonah Rapert: Okay, again, I'm Jonah Rapert and I'm a senior marketing major, and I work for Modthink marketing.

0:32:47.7 Kevin Roberts: How did you get a second crack at this Jonah. Have you got an in with the teacher or something?

0:32:52.4 Jonah Rapert: I think I might know the teacher a little bit. Just a relevant, maybe.

0:32:56.2 Kevin Roberts: Yeah, well there's no point in having power unless you abuse it.


0:33:00.3 Molly Rapert: Yes.

0:33:00.8 Jonah Rapert: Of course. Well I was gonna say, I'm inspired by your remarks on technology and how it can either be harnessed for success or it can dominate your life. It's more relevant for my generation.

0:33:10.2 Kevin Roberts: Yeah.

0:33:12.2 Jonah Rapert: What are some personal routines that you use to protect yourself from the negative side effects and just like thinking of it now, what advice would you give to your own grandchild who's growing up in the world that we're about to be growing up in?

0:33:23.7 Kevin Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a social issue of the day, you've seen all the media about this now. It's the biggest mental health problem we're facing, it's the biggest productivity inefficiency we're facing, and I'm confident that humanity will deal to it and re-harness it because it is also the greatest liberator that we've ever known, right? It's just a brilliant connector, and it has the downsides. I believe that I've called this the screen, the mobile phone in particular, is what I would call the weapon of mass distraction, and we've got to make it... We've got to bend it to our will, so it makes us happier and more effective and more positive, not vice versa.

0:34:17.5 Kevin Roberts: So three simple rules. Rule number one, does it help me or harm me? That's rule number one. If it harms me, you've gotta get that notification off, you've gotta get off Twitter, you've gotta get off Instagram, I don't care. Does it help or harm? You may only go off for three weeks, you may only go off for six hours, does it help or harm? And don't fool yourself. Number two, no screens in your bedroom, none. No phone. I know it's your bloody alarm clock, buy an alarm clock, okay? That's not good enough because it sits here lurking at the back of your primeval brain and doesn't let you sleep properly. No screens in the bedroom. No iPad. No phone. No TV. No nothing. Okay, rule number three, and that's the end of the rules, you do not look at your screen for 45 minutes after you've awoken. No exceptions. Despite what you might think, the world can move without you for 45 minutes. In those 45 minutes, you breathe, you get your endorphins released, you mindfulness, you visualize, you meditate, you have coffee, you go for a run, you do anything, do not do it on your bloody screen. The screen will still be there, the notifications will still be there, your friends will still be there. For 45 minutes, get your head and your heart into shape. I do all three of those things.

0:35:52.7 Andy Murray: Wonderful time, Kevin, this has been really gracious of you and Molly thank you for...

0:35:57.2 Kevin Roberts: You will be punished for the extra half hour, Molly. You will be punished Andy. I will find ways to punish you.

0:36:03.5 Andy Murray: I got a feeling it's coming.

0:36:04.6 Kevin Roberts: I applaud you on your... I applaud you on your initiative. I applaud you on your risk-taking. I applaud you on making happy choices. I applaud you for setting a great example to your students of breaking the rules and begging for forgiveness later. I have enjoyed this enormously. I said I meant what I had to say before, if you find a way, Molly, that you wanna do something else, Andy I'm sure will help you. So thank you all, everyone for giving up two hours of your time.

0:36:48.2 Molly Rapert: I do beg forgiveness, but it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for me and thank you for giving it to us.

0:36:52.9 Kevin Roberts: You are forgiven. You're forgiven gracefully. And I honor you. Andy, thank you so much.

0:37:00.8 Andy Murray: Thank you.

0:37:00.8 Kevin Roberts: I gotta run.

0:37:02.2 Andy Murray: Thank you guys.

0:37:03.9 Kevin Roberts: Hasta la vista.

0:37:06.1 Andy Murray: That's it for this episode of It's a Customer's World. If you found this helpful and entertaining, I would be so grateful if you could share our show with your friends. And I'd be super happy if you subscribe so you can be updated as we publish new episodes. And if you really wanna help leave us a five-star rating and a positive review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. It's a Customer's World podcast is a product of the University of Arkansas customer-centric leadership initiative and a Walton College original production.

Walton College

Walton College of Business

Since its founding at the University of Arkansas in 1926, the Sam M. Walton College of Business has grown to become the state's premier college of business – as well as a nationally competitive business school. Learn more...

Customer Centric Leadership Initiative

The Customer Centric Leadership Initiative promotes thought leadership and ongoing inquiry among scholars, students, business leaders and regulators to address the evolving marketing and customer engagement challenges inherent in an omnichannel, transparent and hyperconnected marketplace through education, research and outreach. Learn more...

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